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	<title>Comments on: A meditation for self-hatred</title>
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		<title>By: Bodhipaksa</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157928</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodhipaksa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157928</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t saying that you should treat &lt;em&gt;every&lt;/em&gt; thought as if it&#039;s a self-critical thought. Treat self-critical thoughts as self-critical thoughts.

&lt;em&gt;Where do you draw the line and say, “sorry, this is not allowed”?&lt;/em&gt; We can learn which thoughts are supportive of wellbeing and which aren&#039;t. Traditionally this is described as &quot;right view&quot; (samma ditthi), and it requires mindfulness (samma sati). 

Desire and other emotional states do have a way of tricking us, and there&#039;s no way to instantly prevent them from fooling us. But you can also use mindfulness and metta to deal with them. Over time they become less active. You can notice them, but not act them out (at least sometimes). These emotions aren&#039;t separate from your thoughts, though. They manifest as thoughts: &quot;Oh, what I really need is ... just one more ... what&#039;s the harm ... I&#039;ll stop tomorrow.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t saying that you should treat <em>every</em> thought as if it&#8217;s a self-critical thought. Treat self-critical thoughts as self-critical thoughts.</p>
<p><em>Where do you draw the line and say, “sorry, this is not allowed”?</em> We can learn which thoughts are supportive of wellbeing and which aren&#8217;t. Traditionally this is described as &#8220;right view&#8221; (samma ditthi), and it requires mindfulness (samma sati). </p>
<p>Desire and other emotional states do have a way of tricking us, and there&#8217;s no way to instantly prevent them from fooling us. But you can also use mindfulness and metta to deal with them. Over time they become less active. You can notice them, but not act them out (at least sometimes). These emotions aren&#8217;t separate from your thoughts, though. They manifest as thoughts: &#8220;Oh, what I really need is &#8230; just one more &#8230; what&#8217;s the harm &#8230; I&#8217;ll stop tomorrow.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157851</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 06:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157851</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re right about being gentle but firm. But sometimes the &quot;voice&quot; is right. It might say, &quot;my mind is not steady on the breath&quot; or &quot;I am clumsy&quot;. And it&#039;s right! And sometimes it says, &quot;I am going to die today&quot;, or, &quot;I deserve to be used&quot;, and it&#039;s wrong. So I can see that in the first case I should say, &quot;Thanks, Solrac, you are right.&quot; But in the second case, what should I say? &quot;Thanks for your input, Solrac&quot;?

And what should I do with feelings that are not voices, like addictive cravings, irrational fears, feelings of ill will? Where do you draw the line and say, &quot;sorry, this is not allowed&quot;? I could say, &quot;thanks but no thanks&quot; or &quot;Desire, may you be happy&quot;, but desire has a way of tricking us. It presents us with mental advertisements of what we think will happen if and when we give into it. It then says, &quot;see how good this is? you will do this ASAP&quot;. Can we use metta to accept and pacify these urges?

Thanks again. I think this knowledge can really free and empower some of us who struggle with self-hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re right about being gentle but firm. But sometimes the &#8220;voice&#8221; is right. It might say, &#8220;my mind is not steady on the breath&#8221; or &#8220;I am clumsy&#8221;. And it&#8217;s right! And sometimes it says, &#8220;I am going to die today&#8221;, or, &#8220;I deserve to be used&#8221;, and it&#8217;s wrong. So I can see that in the first case I should say, &#8220;Thanks, Solrac, you are right.&#8221; But in the second case, what should I say? &#8220;Thanks for your input, Solrac&#8221;?</p>
<p>And what should I do with feelings that are not voices, like addictive cravings, irrational fears, feelings of ill will? Where do you draw the line and say, &#8220;sorry, this is not allowed&#8221;? I could say, &#8220;thanks but no thanks&#8221; or &#8220;Desire, may you be happy&#8221;, but desire has a way of tricking us. It presents us with mental advertisements of what we think will happen if and when we give into it. It then says, &#8220;see how good this is? you will do this ASAP&#8221;. Can we use metta to accept and pacify these urges?</p>
<p>Thanks again. I think this knowledge can really free and empower some of us who struggle with self-hate.</p>
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		<title>By: Bodhipaksa</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157815</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodhipaksa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157815</guid>
		<description>Solrac sounds like a good name.

I think we need to be gentle but firm with these voices. They lie to us. But they&#039;re not really malicious -- they actually come from parts of ourselves that believe we&#039;ll be safer and happier if we never succeed at anything. In a way they want us to be happy, but are clueless. So they&#039;re misguided, and not very smart. But I don&#039;t think in terms of belittling, and certainly not honoring. Yes, we have to accept that this inner voice is there, and that it&#039;s not helpful, and that arguing with it isn&#039;t going to get us anywhere. It&#039;s like the drunk uncle who shows up at family gatherings and sits in a corner making racist comments -- you just say, &quot;Oh, yeah, it&#039;s him,&quot; but the kindest thing is otherwise to ignore him. Be kind, but don&#039;t engage.

I think the metta practice you did towards your inner critic is good. I&#039;ve done that kind of thing myself. The practice above is more for when you&#039;re in the middle of daily activities and thoughts pop up. You can stop them from gaining a foothold just bay saying, &quot;Hi, Solrac. Thanks for your input!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solrac sounds like a good name.</p>
<p>I think we need to be gentle but firm with these voices. They lie to us. But they&#8217;re not really malicious &#8212; they actually come from parts of ourselves that believe we&#8217;ll be safer and happier if we never succeed at anything. In a way they want us to be happy, but are clueless. So they&#8217;re misguided, and not very smart. But I don&#8217;t think in terms of belittling, and certainly not honoring. Yes, we have to accept that this inner voice is there, and that it&#8217;s not helpful, and that arguing with it isn&#8217;t going to get us anywhere. It&#8217;s like the drunk uncle who shows up at family gatherings and sits in a corner making racist comments &#8212; you just say, &#8220;Oh, yeah, it&#8217;s him,&#8221; but the kindest thing is otherwise to ignore him. Be kind, but don&#8217;t engage.</p>
<p>I think the metta practice you did towards your inner critic is good. I&#8217;ve done that kind of thing myself. The practice above is more for when you&#8217;re in the middle of daily activities and thoughts pop up. You can stop them from gaining a foothold just bay saying, &#8220;Hi, Solrac. Thanks for your input!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157780</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157780</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the tip. I agree that I can&#039;t win in fighting myself, because fighting strengthens fighting, which is what I am trying to end.

But as for calling the voice a name, I think I&#039;ll try calling it  &quot;solraC&quot; because this is really &quot;me&quot; criticizing myself, but a different &quot;me&quot;. And when you say &quot;tolerantly amused&quot;, is that like belittling the voice, honouring it, or just openly accepting it as it is?

I tried this morning doing the 5 phase lovingkindness meditation, towards others and not myself. But every time I found myself distracted (often by thoughts that were criticizing or doubting myself, others, the practice, and my teachers), I said to the &quot;voice&quot;, &quot;May you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be peaceful, may you live with ease.&quot; This is the opposite of how I usually react when I realize I have been distracted for a whole minute, which is basically to start ranting even more about how I can&#039;t concentrate or what to do about it until I realize again I&#039;m not focused on the object. I think it sort of worked, because I felt more peaceful and happier than usual after the meditation. Is this the sort of attitude we should have towards our voice when we find ourselves distracted? Or should it be more neutral?

Thanks for your help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the tip. I agree that I can&#8217;t win in fighting myself, because fighting strengthens fighting, which is what I am trying to end.</p>
<p>But as for calling the voice a name, I think I&#8217;ll try calling it  &#8220;solraC&#8221; because this is really &#8220;me&#8221; criticizing myself, but a different &#8220;me&#8221;. And when you say &#8220;tolerantly amused&#8221;, is that like belittling the voice, honouring it, or just openly accepting it as it is?</p>
<p>I tried this morning doing the 5 phase lovingkindness meditation, towards others and not myself. But every time I found myself distracted (often by thoughts that were criticizing or doubting myself, others, the practice, and my teachers), I said to the &#8220;voice&#8221;, &#8220;May you be happy, may you be healthy, may you be peaceful, may you live with ease.&#8221; This is the opposite of how I usually react when I realize I have been distracted for a whole minute, which is basically to start ranting even more about how I can&#8217;t concentrate or what to do about it until I realize again I&#8217;m not focused on the object. I think it sort of worked, because I felt more peaceful and happier than usual after the meditation. Is this the sort of attitude we should have towards our voice when we find ourselves distracted? Or should it be more neutral?</p>
<p>Thanks for your help.</p>
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		<title>By: Bodhipaksa</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157681</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodhipaksa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157681</guid>
		<description>Notice that inner voice that says, or implies, that you&#039;re stupid and incapable, and give it a name. I call mine &quot;Heinrich.&quot; When I become aware that my inner critic is talking, I just say &quot;Thanks, Heinrich&quot; in a friendly, tolerantly amused manner. I&#039;d suggest you do the same. There&#039;s no point setting up a fight with yourself. If you fight with yourself, how can you win?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notice that inner voice that says, or implies, that you&#8217;re stupid and incapable, and give it a name. I call mine &#8220;Heinrich.&#8221; When I become aware that my inner critic is talking, I just say &#8220;Thanks, Heinrich&#8221; in a friendly, tolerantly amused manner. I&#8217;d suggest you do the same. There&#8217;s no point setting up a fight with yourself. If you fight with yourself, how can you win?</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157589</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157589</guid>
		<description>Okay, here is a direct answer: 

&quot;I believe that I am incapable of practising meditation and self-control because I believe I am too stupid to do so and this gives me a sense of comfort.&quot;

Honesty: 90%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, here is a direct answer: </p>
<p>&#8220;I believe that I am incapable of practising meditation and self-control because I believe I am too stupid to do so and this gives me a sense of comfort.&#8221;</p>
<p>Honesty: 90%</p>
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		<title>By: Bodhipaksa</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157579</link>
		<dc:creator>Bodhipaksa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157579</guid>
		<description>To be very direct, Carlos, why don&#039;t you stop finding excuses not to practice, and just practice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be very direct, Carlos, why don&#8217;t you stop finding excuses not to practice, and just practice?</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-157565</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-157565</guid>
		<description>First of all, thank you for this idea. Poke me to try it. This may be useful for me, since my feelings of self-aggression directly affect my meditation, since I take joy in making myself unhappy. The mindfulness meditation can serve as fodder for my self-aggressive ego to attack myself, pointing out how bad I am when I become mindful of my flaws. The daily meditation is just time to sit and criticize how bad at concentrating or how bad at being compassionate I am. It feels good to do this, or I wouldn&#039;t do it. 

Should I show lovingkindness to this inner abuser? Hope that it gets happy? It already is! Who should I wish happy?? The victim, the very person doing the abusing? Maybe to other people who made me this way, where the root of the problem occurred when I was not mindful. And what is the distinction between mindfulness and lovingkindness, in essence? Can you be kind to someone without being mindful? Can you be mindful of your inner state without being kind to yourself? This may be why some people practice metta before practicing mindfulness meditation?

Also, the distinction between self and other is not so solid. States of attachment and aversion can arise for people &quot;outside&quot; of yourself as well as for &quot;beings&quot; or personalities within. In general I have difficulty maintaining a friendly while neutral attitude, which, in daily life and in meditation, is the preferred way of dealing with obstacles to attaining stillness. Maybe you have to start somewhere. If you just show unconditional peaceful kindness to your breath, to your anger, to sounds in the environment, and to other living beings you appreciate or resent, then you are on the way to equanimity and peace? Or is there more to it than that?

I hope you see how confused I am. If I weren&#039;t confused, I wouldn&#039;t need to ask for advice. Or maybe the problem is I am not confused enough. Can someone please unlearn me? Sorry, I was holding all of this in. Here goes, &quot;Submit&quot;. (If any of this is divisive: please don&#039;t believe a word I say!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, thank you for this idea. Poke me to try it. This may be useful for me, since my feelings of self-aggression directly affect my meditation, since I take joy in making myself unhappy. The mindfulness meditation can serve as fodder for my self-aggressive ego to attack myself, pointing out how bad I am when I become mindful of my flaws. The daily meditation is just time to sit and criticize how bad at concentrating or how bad at being compassionate I am. It feels good to do this, or I wouldn&#8217;t do it. </p>
<p>Should I show lovingkindness to this inner abuser? Hope that it gets happy? It already is! Who should I wish happy?? The victim, the very person doing the abusing? Maybe to other people who made me this way, where the root of the problem occurred when I was not mindful. And what is the distinction between mindfulness and lovingkindness, in essence? Can you be kind to someone without being mindful? Can you be mindful of your inner state without being kind to yourself? This may be why some people practice metta before practicing mindfulness meditation?</p>
<p>Also, the distinction between self and other is not so solid. States of attachment and aversion can arise for people &#8220;outside&#8221; of yourself as well as for &#8220;beings&#8221; or personalities within. In general I have difficulty maintaining a friendly while neutral attitude, which, in daily life and in meditation, is the preferred way of dealing with obstacles to attaining stillness. Maybe you have to start somewhere. If you just show unconditional peaceful kindness to your breath, to your anger, to sounds in the environment, and to other living beings you appreciate or resent, then you are on the way to equanimity and peace? Or is there more to it than that?</p>
<p>I hope you see how confused I am. If I weren&#8217;t confused, I wouldn&#8217;t need to ask for advice. Or maybe the problem is I am not confused enough. Can someone please unlearn me? Sorry, I was holding all of this in. Here goes, &#8220;Submit&#8221;. (If any of this is divisive: please don&#8217;t believe a word I say!!)</p>
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		<title>By: Katy</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-116339</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 20:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-116339</guid>
		<description>Hi Bodhipaksa / Daisy

Yeah, it&#039;s really hard to get the balance between acceptance of what is, and acceptance that something has to change! Reminds me of that saying that all humans are perfect just as they are but could do with some polishing. i&#039;m paraphrasing there but you get the idea :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bodhipaksa / Daisy</p>
<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s really hard to get the balance between acceptance of what is, and acceptance that something has to change! Reminds me of that saying that all humans are perfect just as they are but could do with some polishing. i&#8217;m paraphrasing there but you get the idea :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Daisy</title>
		<link>http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred/comment-page-1#comment-116334</link>
		<dc:creator>Daisy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 18:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wildmind.org/metta/metta-four/self-hatred#comment-116334</guid>
		<description>Thanks Bodhipaksa, it&#039;s funny, I spend most of my day thinking really carefully about how I speak to others as part of my job (I work with Offenders with Learning Disabilities), but I don&#039;t always give the same level of consideration to how I talk to and about myself.
Thanks also Katy, for your comments. I think what I mean by blocks is really an unwillingness that I have felt to open myself to the experience of lovingkindness or to have the equanimity to accept how I am feeling at the particular moment, rather than grasping at an ideal of how it should feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Bodhipaksa, it&#8217;s funny, I spend most of my day thinking really carefully about how I speak to others as part of my job (I work with Offenders with Learning Disabilities), but I don&#8217;t always give the same level of consideration to how I talk to and about myself.<br />
Thanks also Katy, for your comments. I think what I mean by blocks is really an unwillingness that I have felt to open myself to the experience of lovingkindness or to have the equanimity to accept how I am feeling at the particular moment, rather than grasping at an ideal of how it should feel.</p>
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