One of the most common misconceptions about meditation is that it’s about making your mind go blank. I don’t know where this “meme” originated (a “meme” is a virus-like idea which inhabits or even “infects” our minds) but it’s pervasive and long-lasting. I think it may take at least another generation or two of spiritual practice before that notion goes to the scrapheap of ideas that it deserves to rest in.
This mistaken idea is even found in some meditation sites that rank highly in Google, which is a little worrying.
Certainly, we want in meditation to reduce the amount of thinking that goes on. Most of us are plagued with thoughts that arise seemingly without cause. It’s rare to experience more than a few moments without some thought arising. And although this is “normal” (i.e. very common) it’s not healthy. Many of the thoughts that arise in the mind are supportive of emotions of anxiety, ill will, neurotic craving, and self-doubt. So that’s why we want to reduce the amount of thinking we do — to have a rest from this near-relentless onslaught of thoughts.
We can even experience times in meditation when no thoughts arise at all.
Hey, you may be thinking, hasn’t he just contradicted himself? Well, no. Let me explain.
If you think that not thinking is the same as having a blank mind, then you’re making the error of equating “the mind” with “thinking” and specifically with verbal thinking, or inner self-talk. There’s much more to the mind than inner self-talk! There are perceptions of physical sensations, and there are perceptions of feelings and emotions, and of internally-generated images.
When meditation brings us to the point where self-talk ceases, the mind is anything but blank. Instead it’s full — full of an awareness of those sensations, feelings, emotions, and images. I like to think of this as one of the meanings of mindfulness – “mind-full-ness,” or the mind being so full that there’s no need for, and no room for, inner self-talk.
Our inner self-talk, as well as generating or reinforcing unhelpful emotions, also has the effect of keeping us at a relatively superficial level of our experience. We get so wrapped up in what we’re saying to ourselves inside our heads that we often don’t really notice what’s going on in the heart, the body, or even in the outside world.
As we start to pay more attention to the breath, and therefore the body, we find that our thinking naturally starts to quiet down. And this creates an even greater opportunity to notice the body, feelings and emotions, etc.
And we find that interesting things start to happen. Because we’re no longer reinforcing unhelpful emotions, we feel happier. And we’re free to notice that happiness more because we’re less obsessed with our thinking. So we really notice how happy we are becoming.
Interesting things start to happen in the body as well. Because we’re no longer reinforcing unhelpful emotions, the body starts to relax. As it relaxes it feels more enjoyable to have a body and energy starts to be released. And that energy is very pleasurable, and because we’re less obsessed with thinking we’re free to really notice those sensations as well.
And sometimes vivid and symbolic imagery wells up into the mind, and of course we’re free to really pay attention to that. We don’t necessarily think about the imagery, but we allow it to sit within us like a wise presence.
So all this is going on in the mind, and the mind is therefore anything but “blank.” Normal experience seems “blank” in comparison to the fullness of experience that we can develop in meditation. I’m reminded of times I’ve been reading outdoors and have emerged from the lines of text on the page to realize that there’s a world full or life and beauty around me that seems incomparably richer and more beautiful than the book. And I say this as someone who has always loved reading!
Sometimes we decide it is appropriate to think in meditation. And we call this reflection. This kind of thinking is more focused and powerful than normal thought. We don’t have a constant stream of thoughts running through the mind, but instead we take a thought and allow it to be there, not going anywhere but simply sitting in the mind, surrounded by awareness, and we notice what responses it calls forth. It’s like the difference between watching MTV, with its constant jumping from one image to another, and standing in an art museum, spending time in front of one picture and drinking it in. (Although I’ve noticed that people generally spend most of their time reading the labels of the pictures than they spend actually looking at the pictures themselves — a sign, I assume, that they are addicted to inner self-talk and uncomfortable with actual experience.
So, no, it’s not contradictory to say that meditation isn’t about making your mind go blank, but that it can help us to reduce, or even eliminate, inner self-talk for periods of time. Meditation is about developing mindfulness, or “mind-full-ness.”
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As someone who teaches meditation I have to say I don't want to believe that meditation can produce this kind of effect, but I also honestly find it hard to believe that it could.
I don't think the mind has easily accessible on/off switches that can accidentally be knocked to the wrong position. Certainly, there's plenty of evidence that meditation changes the brain, but the changes that have been observed have been gradual and have resulted in an increase in positive emotion. I've known many, many thousands of people who have practiced meditation for years, and never heard of anything similar happening. My suspicion would be that the fact you guys had been meditating was just a coincidence.
This is classic psychological dissociation and emotional numbing which is a near enemy of the equanimity and mental clarity cultivated by proper meditation. Those experiencing dissociation and related conditions (depersonalization, derealization) should seek professional psychiatric and psychological help. One possibly dangerous side-effect is going down a path of psychopathology. Psychopaths/sociopaths don't feel emotions either, making it easy to cheat, lie, and even kill.
I think this could be a bit more than a psychological condition, Duff. One of the links that "Calm" provided points to possible brain damage.
I'm not saying it's not brain damage. It very well could be. Many old yogic texts warned against death or madness could be a result of intensive practices.
Hi again everyone.
Duff posted about Depersonalization Disorder a while back and I recently read about some people who say they also feel "blank" or numb emotionally and feeling detached from their own thoughts. This are people from Depersonalization and Derealization forums. Maybe this is what some of us have? Like Numb mentioned it's not that I don't have thoughts anymore but it's like they are faint, I do remember actually sometime last year I felt like I was going crazy I had lots of thoughts racing through my mind some were quite disturbing and I just wanted to try and keep myself busy to avoid the racing thoughts. I honestly wondered if I was going mad. I actually felt a bit more normal around this period though because I experienced some depression for a while. However eventually I started to realize I had a blank mind, a emotionally numb mind. I think I may of got into this state by questioning things too much myself, my life, reality etc. Perhaps all this questioning overwelmed my mind and it shutdown in someway. I know this sounds bad and coldhearted but I can talk to others and they have no affect on me at all but I know how to act and react to others but they can't sense I don't feel anything. I don't like being in this state at times the mental stillness can be pleasant and peaceful but I feel almost emotionally dead most of the time. I have realized recently even comedies I enjoy watching while they are still funny and make me laugth the feeling of the laughter isn't there. My concern is that I will be forever stuck in this state of mind.
I am wondering if Numb or Fuzzwuzz have found anything to help with this problem. Perhaps you may of found a way to pull themselves out of this emotionally numb, neutral state?
Thanks
Calm--sounds like you paid a high price for inner peace. Numbness and depersonalization is not at all the same as peace that comes from calm abiding (shamatha) and clear seeing (vipassana).
"Enlightenment is intimacy with all things." ~Jack Kornfield
p.s. My recommendation for those commenters experiencing dissociation and depersonalization (emotional numbness, etc.) is to find a psychotherapist that specializes in mindfulness-based approaches. The only way to become less numb is to embrace your experience directly, with courage and precision. Hopefully in time your feelings will resurface...and if they do, you will need that professional support in dealing with their intensity, having been buried for so long.
So far I didn’t find a solution Calm, when I first posted here I actually hoped you found some kind of cure. I don’t think I am suffering from depersonalization though, the symptoms don't really match. I am not in a dreamlike state and the world didn't become less real to me. It’s just the absence of (real) emotions and the absence of conscious thoughts. I am sure there are still thoughts but I am no longer aware of them, like I described before: the inner voice is gone/hiding. Having that said, I won’t give up and will continue the journey until I uncover the emotions and thoughts. How? By trying out new things to see how my mind reacts to it. I am creating my own assignments to try and stimulate the mind. I want to 'force' my emotions and thoughts to re-appear. Talking about this problem is only the first step.
Hi Numb being in this state of mind is frustrating however I believe there must be some sort of answer for us to fix it someway.
I have a theory which goes back to what I mentioned sometime back. Perhaps when we did meditation (maybe we did indeed do it wrong in someway) and somehow we became stuck in this state. Most of the time I feel half alert and half in a daze. Now if you look online you can read all about "Brainwave" states. Basically these "Brainwave" states are what we experience at any given time. Now if you look into the "Alpha" Brainwave state it's supposed to be the lightest trance state where the mind is fully alert but at the sametime the conscious mind eseentially falls asleep. Hence why this is considered the ideal Brainwave state to reprgramme the mind in. I honestly wonder if I have somehow got stuck in a Hypnosis state (Alpha) because It does feel like my mind is asleep most of the time like you say Numb it's almost like I am not aware of my thoughts like before. I doubt our conscious mind has shutdown because if that was the case could we function well at all? Could we even work? I don't think we would. The change in Brainwaves seems like a possible explanation to our problem. Also consider this Fuzzwuzz mentioned sometime ago that he/she had results saying their thinking had slowed down, well again certain Brainwave states can slow down the brain I am thinking "Alpha" state here you can function in this state. I believe we are stuck in some sort of Hypnosis state hopefully we can get out of it and fully feel our thoughts again but the question is how does one get out of trance or Hypnosis state?
I believe you have hit the nail on the head there - you must have practiced self hypnosis instead of meditation. In the Transcendental Meditation training programs people are taught that they will enter a thought-free state before they start meditating, and then they experience that. The mind goes "blank" so to speak. It is self hypnosis.
Essentially, you are telling yourself that you have no thoughts. But you do have thoughts otherwise you couldn't think that you don't.
If it is depersonalization or derealization, it could be psychosis related. That could be either genetic or fostered by drug use.
If so, some medication would help greatly with that.
When i was younger i smoked a lot of pot and my makeup was such that it had a bad effect on me. I felt as though i was detached from the external world and my internal dialogue which made everything seem dream like, or like i couldn't feel my body normally. Before this, i had a strong inner sub-vocalism and was quite energised. After this, a kind of witness state emerged which made me feel sad and uncomfortable. Eventually i got on medication and this problem has gone away. I can meditate or practice pranayama if i want to if i feel like it, and there is nothing dreamy-like about it - i just feel nice and relaxed, almost tranquil and i have learnt how my thoughts work and how to stay positive through cognitive behavioural therapy approaches. What i would caution against is meditation at the cost of sleep, or meditation at the start and end of the day when the body is naturally fatigued, because this could cause dissociative symptoms etc etc.
Unfortunately, meditation is not for everybody. The literature on the dangers of meditation are clear and out there if you look.
But i have to say that the article here tallies with my experience completely. What is known as conscious self talk is called Sub-vocal thinking. This goes away in meditative states to some degree and you are left with images and feelings, more "intuitive" thinking, and even auditory phenomena. Collectively, you could say it is a hypnagogic state where the conscious mind or "ego" retreats inside to some degree.
I deleted a comment by a "born-again" the other day that explained how the problem of having no thoughts or an absence of feelings is caused by demonic possession. I'd forgotten that kind of thinking still existed. I suspect some kind of neurological damage unrelated to meditation is a more likely explanation.