Meditation and depression

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• Hi. I use to feel so much joy, love and compassion. Then a couple of years ago my husband was being very mentally and verbally abusive and I got really stressed out. I ended up having a mental breakdown, psychosis and am now labeled bipolar. I'm taking medications. Since the breakdown I can no longer feel any joy, happiness, love or compassion, not even for my children. I am having a hard time living like this and feel like I cannot contribute to my children or to the world if I can no longer feel any emotions. How do I practice loving kindness if I am unable to feel anything and is it still beneficial for others. Can you give me any advice in how to live like this.

  Sincerely,
  Tina

  • Hi, Tins.

    First, I'm sorry to hear that you had this experience and are still suffering from its effects. And second, many apologies for the delayed reply, but I had a busy summer and couldn't keep up with the volume of comments here. I'm just getting caught up now.

    I'm sure you have more metta for yourself and your children than you acknowledge. I presume you feed and take care of your children and yourself, and seek medical care when it's needed. Metta is an intention to benefit others -- the feeling is secondary. So probably the metta is there, and you're acting on it, but you're not feeling it. Possibly you learned to cut off from your feelings, or if you're on medications this may be affecting your ability to feel.

    I'd suggest that you notice and appreciate your mettaful actions — the simple forms of caring included — and recognize that the metta is there. In time I'm sure you'll reconnect with the feelings again.

    In the meantime, I'd suggest keeping your attention around the heart area, for example when you're meditating, but also in daily life. The vagus nerve, which runs past the heart, is what produces the feelings that are associated with metta. By keeping your attention in the heart area, you make it more likely that the vagus will be active, and that you'll notice its effects. This may be uncomfortable at times, because it can be painful to reconnect with repressed feelings, but stick with it.

    With much metta,
    Bodhipaksa

• I've experienced depression for most of my life but managed to be highly successful academically and professionally until I was in my 30’s; then I lost all motivation and sense of direction. I’ve tried dozens of medications and therapies, been hospitalized for ECT, and tried a newer treatment called TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). I'm doing better, but my procrastination behavior is detrimental to transitioning back to a “normal” life. Worse, only a few close friends know about my illness and that I have been on Social Security disability, and others frequently tell me how positive and put together I am since I am vague about my source of income and I look healthy.

  I've done half a dozen meditation retreats, and they help my symptoms. I am now preparing for a three week retreat which will consist of 19 days of silence; other retreats I’ve attended have been half that long.

  My questions are:
  1) Do you have any advice on how to keep up my practice when I return home (I live alone)? I know what is good for me - eating lots of fruits and vegetables, not spending too much time in bed escaping reality, and meditating - but I can’t implement and maintain these habits.

  2) Shortly after this prolonged and deep episode began 14 years ago, I did a meditation course for the first time. When the body scanning part began on Day Four, I felt intense and incredibly rapid currents of electricity zooming down and out of my arms. It was scary for a few seconds and then I just went with it, enjoying it. I try not to crave a repeat episode, which is difficult since it was such a beautiful experience. Do you think that it somehow was a catalyst to this prolonged depression since before that I could manage the symptoms better? I find comfort in the memory of such a profound experience but I want to hear your thoughts.

  3) In the last two years at retreats I feel best when I am applying myself even if no highly mystical sensations appear, but certain blogs discourage people with depression and anxiety to attend retreats. Since the upcoming retreat will be so much longer, should I try not to work hard and instead use the time to relax and not concentrate too much?

  4) My intention in not disclosing my mental health history to the retreat organizers was that I didn't want my application to be rejected. In doing so, I am lying and not practicing Noble Speech. On the other hand, I've benefitted from past retreats and perhaps a longer one is just what I need to get better. If I had more energy and focus, I could benefit society more besides alleviating some of my own suffering. Is my justification reasonable in your opinion?

  5) Is it possible that the best thing for me to do is accept that treatment resistant depression is just part of who I am and that I should resist craving a more pleasurable life?

  Thank you for this website-

  • Hi, Ian.

    Thanks for writing. Apologies for the delayed reply, but the last few days have been busy (I'm about to head off on retreat myself) and I sometimes find long comments daunting and put them off in favor of more easily manageable tasks!

    1) Do you have any advice on how to keep up my practice when I return home (I live alone)? I know what is good for me – eating lots of fruits and vegetables, not spending too much time in bed escaping reality, and meditating – but I can’t implement and maintain these habits.

    Developing healthy eating habits is not a field I'm very familiar with, I'm afraid. The most useful thing I've found personally is to think about how I'm going to feel after I eat unhealthy food. And I suppose making sure I have time to shop for healthy food is important as well. If that kind of food is on hand, I tend to eat it. But as I said, this isn't my field, so you should look elsewhere for advice.

    2) Shortly after this prolonged and deep episode began 14 years ago, I did a meditation course for the first time. When the body scanning part began on Day Four, I felt intense and incredibly rapid currents of electricity zooming down and out of my arms. It was scary for a few seconds and then I just went with it, enjoying it. I try not to crave a repeat episode, which is difficult since it was such a beautiful experience. Do you think that it somehow was a catalyst to this prolonged depression since before that I could manage the symptoms better? I find comfort in the memory of such a profound experience but I want to hear your thoughts.

    That's an experience of what's called "piti," which is a very normal and not uncommon occurrence in meditation. It arises when we're in touch with the body, relaxing deeply, and at peace emotionally, and so you're right not trying to crave a repeat experience, since the "trying" is actually counter-productive. I doubt that it was directly the catalyst for your depression.

    3) In the last two years at retreats I feel best when I am applying myself even if no highly mystical sensations appear, but certain blogs discourage people with depression and anxiety to attend retreats. Since the upcoming retreat will be so much longer, should I try not to work hard and instead use the time to relax and not concentrate too much?

    Well, any work you do should be done gently and with kindness. That's how we should always approach meditation. Just keep being friendly with yourself. This has to be recursive, so that if check to see if you're being friendly with yourself you realize you're not, this doesn't become an excuse to beat yourself up, but becomes a reason to be gentle and patient.

    I don't know if you do lovingkindness meditation, or whether that's something you've found helpful, but it can, when approached with the right understanding, be very beneficial. For some people with depression it can be a nightmare because they think the point of the practice is to "feel love," (which it isn't) and they think that if they don't have some lovely glowy feeling of love then they don't have any love and that there's something horribly wrong. And all of that is based on a misunderstanding of the practice, and of what metta is.

    4) My intention in not disclosing my mental health history to the retreat organizers was that I didn’t want my application to be rejected. In doing so, I am lying and not practicing Noble Speech. On the other hand, I’ve benefitted from past retreats and perhaps a longer one is just what I need to get better. If I had more energy and focus, I could benefit society more besides alleviating some of my own suffering. Is my justification reasonable in your opinion?

    I don't think the deception was helpful for either you or the organizers. They probably would have let you go anyway. It's better if you're honest with yourself and with them. I'd suggest getting in touch before the retreat starts and "fessing up." If possible, have a chat with one of the teachers and see what they think. They'll be well aware that meditation can be helpful for depression.

    5) Is it possible that the best thing for me to do is accept that treatment resistant depression is just part of who I am and that I should resist craving a more pleasurable life?

    I'm uncomfortable with the expression, "treatment-resistant depression." I think it concretizes the problem. Your experience of depression is simply one you're still finding ways to work with.

    And I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of depression being "part of who you are." It's a part of your experience, yes, and it's something to be accepted while it's there, but it doesn't define you. You are not your depression, and your depression isn't you.

    But you should definitely resist the craving for a more pleasant life. Craving causes pain (and depression). It's OK to want and aspire to have a more pleasant life, but wanting and aspiring don't have to include craving. Craving has an air of desperation about it, and when we don't have what we crave, we suffer. Simply aspiring to happiness can and should include a complete acceptance of whatever you're feeling right now, whether or not that's pleasant or joyful.

    Anyway, I hope you have a good retreat, where you accept whatever pain arises, and where you're kind to yourself.

• I have feel anxiety and loneliness for most of my life as I am single and don't have many family members and although I have quite a few friends in different stage of my life, most of them are superficial level.
  Not sure whether my negative emotion(anxiety, fear of loneliness) are consider as depression but it sometime paralyze my life and I am at loss what to do.
  Self compassion meditation does help a while but the feeling and emotion state keep on coming back. Sometime I try to seek out friends and relationship as a escape from my anxiety and loneliness but in my heart I know that It will not work as I think I have difficulties opening my heart. I was still trying to practice and understand what "aloneness" mean. Hope you can give me some advise.

  • Hi, Alex.

    Social isolation is very painful. I sympathize. But I have to say that I'm not a life coach or a relationship coach.

    One thing that's working against you is your assumption that connecting with other people "will not work." That kind of mindset becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because with those thoughts in mind we give off signals to other people that we don't want to be approached. So I'd suggest dropping those thoughts as they arise. And take actions that scare you -- like walking up to someone in a social situation and introducing yourself, and asking them questions about themselves.

    What you do have working for you is that you have friends. Even if you regard those connections as superficial, they're a place to start, and they suggest that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with you. Friendship is largely a question of spending time with others and developing the trust and openness that comes from doing that. Perhaps also you can reflect more on what it is that you fear about being open.

    Most of us, I think, end up making connections more easily with people who share our interests. For me, that comes from being part of meditation and Buddhism groups. It took me a long time to really connect with people, so you need to persist. And practices like lovingkindness meditation help us to feel more confident in ourselves, and to feel more able to express how we feel. I'm assuming that you have an interest in Buddhism or meditation since you're on this site, so perhaps that's a way forward for you. Some Buddhist groups are more "chatty" than others, though. There are some where there's little or no discussion. So you might want to check around.

• Thanks for the reply, My "depression" (more like constant anxiety) derived from conflicting emotion. As human, we try to look for love and partner but afraid that it does not work out as we are looking for sensual pleasure. Fear and Hope paralyze me. I am not sure going into a relationship with a companion will help as I understand that is a temporary but staying alone sometime make me crazy. Meditation helps but once I leave the couch and start to interact socially during work, the painful emotion come back again.
  Sorry for all my rumbling but I am really confuse and thanks for listening to me!

• Hi, It has been 15 years, since my boyfriend left me for another girl, he stopped taking my phone calls and replying to my emails ( we had a distance relationship ), right after leaving me.
  He did not give me the reason of leaving me ( that he fell for another girl ) and dumping me. and actually he did not inform me that he is leaving me, i had to figure it out my selves, after sending endless emails and not hearing from him. It broke me - my self esteem, my confidence fully. After an year, a friend of his told me the reason, of him leaving me.

  After 2 years I met a great guy, he truly immensely loved me, and i loved him too, we got married and now we have a child together. We are very happy in our marriage. But that rejection 15 years before is still like a unhealed wound. I have been doing great in my Career, travelling internationally and having a great loving family, looks like a perfect life. But when ever there comes a reference of a broken heart, dumped person, or a movie where such a thing happens with someone else, I get very sad, all emotions starts coming over, of being rejected and dumped, moreover dealing rejection that happened as a shock.

  in addition to this, when something great happens to me, like if i look great, or if i share an important proud moment with my husband or son, I feel like - he ( my ex) should be watching this, to see what he lost and can not have because of leaving me.

  What i want at my end to get this wound healed completely, so that I do not think of that incident again in my life, also my urge to show off to him, that i am leaving a great life ( we are not in touch since then , its just i imagine showing off to him ). I am very happy in my present, i want all these past memories to leave my mind and also i want to stop my selves to keep proving to him ( virtually)

  please help

  • Hi, "Fairy."

    Sorry for the long delay in my replying. Sometimes my life gets very busy (moving house, surgery, having my websites hacked) the the comments here get neglected.

    This cycle of hurt and humiliation reappearing over and over is quite common. I suspect what's happening is that you're not giving the part of you that's in pain your compassion. It keeps coming up, looking for your compassionate attention, and something you're doing is causing it to be pushed away again. So it's worth deliberately calling to mind something about this situation that will evoke a sense of hurt, noticing exactly where in the body that hurt manifests, and then sending your hurt love by saying things like "May you be happy; may you be at ease," or "I love you and I want you to be happy."

    The other thing that's probably going on is that you're identifying with your hurt. You're seeing it as being a reflection on you — perhaps a failure of a sort. And you're taking your ex's rejection as being a sign that there's something fundamentally wrong with you. But your ex is not you. His actions aren't you. Try telling yourself that. And when hurt arises, tell yourself also that this isn't you: "This isn't me. It's not mine. It's not who I am." Right now you're clinging like crazy to this hurt, even though you don't want it!

• Dear Bodhipaksa,

  First, i would like to offer my gratitude for this website and for the care that is so central to your practice. I have read most of this thread on depression, and have previously visited readings you have posted on adapting the practice of metta when experiencing self-loathing, among other things. All of the information has been helpful -- including the questions of those suffering and sharing their vulnerability in order to elicit helpful advice. I hope that the posters are able to receive this gratitude as well.

  I am interested in finding someone to guide my practice, as i find myself to be very prone to self flagellation and often need a sounding board to help sustain my ability to practice compassion while pursuing understanding and/or acceptance. I do see a therapist who has been helpful, but like some of the posters here, i feel like i have made very little progress over the years. I am choosing to use this frustration to seek out more avenues of support, and not see this as an indication that i am failing to learn the lesson of self-reliance.

  This is one of my self perceived major failings: i expect more from friendship, and even at times friendliness, than i ought for my own well-being. That said, i am currently feeling profoundly lonely. I would guess a good mentor would help me to address the unacknowledged need for validation of my inherent goodness from others within myself, but i at the same time question my motives in seeking additional support.

  Sigh. If you do not know of where i might seek guidance from an individual, could you please suggest a place to start in terms of guided meditations which balance mindfulness with metta?

  Thank you again for this wonderful forum. I hope to one day join you on a retreat (though am fearful that the withdrawal i will experience upon returning from such an experience will interfere with my ability to function at work....as a teacher i often struggle with depression before and after holidays, as strange as that may seem. And this is something that is not best for the students, who often have their own emotional issues peak at these times.)

  Best,
  Jenifer

  • Hi, Jenifer.

    Thanks for your kind comments, and apologies for the delayed reply, but in the last two weeks I've moved house and also had surgery. You might want to try a couple of things: One is joining the Wildmind community on Google Plus, which is a wonderful place to find support and encouragement -- wonderful because of the cool people that hang out there rather than because of anything I do there! The other is signing up for the events we're running as part of our Year of Going Deeper. At the moment we're just over a week into our 28-day lovingkindness event, but the 28-day event on compassion and self-compassion starts on April 1st, and you'd be welcome to join that. Each of those events has a G+ community as well...

• Hi
  I have suffered from the obesivve compulsive disorder......

  So Meditation will be really helpful?

  • Yes, it certainly can be, ch12. If you search on this site for OCD you'll find several articles.

• Thank you for all of the information. In March I lost my son while I was 6 months pregnant. The pain was so terrible I turned to painkillers to try to kill my emotional pain and developed an addiction. On top of that I was fired from a job I love for reasons outside of my control. This has been the hardest period of my life, and I don't want to rely on antidepressants. I will be patient and meditate in hopes it helps clear my mind and my heart.
  Will meditation also help with anxiety?

  • Hi, Chelsea.

    First, let me apologize for the long delay in replying. Sometimes the comments mount up and there isn't enough time to deal with them.

    Second, I'm very sorry to hear of the loss of your son. I went through a miscarriage with a former partner, and it was one of the most painful experiences of my life. You have my total sympathy.

    Meditation can certainly help with anxiety. That's one of the things that it's most well-known for. But at the same time it can make us more aware of our anxieties and if we have a tendency to anxiety then we can end up being anxious about being anxious and get into a vicious cycle. So if you do decide to take up meditation I'd highly recommend doing so with a teacher, so that you can get advice and support.

    All the best,
    Bodhipaksa

• Hi, Bodhipaksa!
  I was really glad when i found this site, where you can find really great guided meditations and I started practice immediately both Lovingkindness meditation and Mindfulness of Breathing. One in the morning and the other before sleep. Already after two days i felt much better, much calmer (i was under lot of stress before), so i continued.. But after one week of practising it, the depression kicked in.. Like all kind of negative emotions bursted out, with intensity..In addition i`ve got badly urinary tract infection, which doesn`t seem to go away even after antibiotic treatment. Maybe that`s not even connected, but i had to mention. So, now i am a bit confused and wondering if that is normal, if i did something wrong, should i continue with meditations, stop it or just postpone it.. Please, help me with some advice, if you can.
  All the best!

  • Have you experienced depression before, and this is a relapse. Velko? Or is this your first time? Is it possible that your infection is sapping your energy and causing your depression?

    • The last time i was really depressed was about 25 years ago. I have to say that i had some anxiety issues every now and then, but i wasn`t depressed since then. So i thought it could be connected with my current meditation sessions. Maybe it brought some underlying, unresolved emotion issue up, i guess. Just wondering, if that is common.. Thank you for the answer.

      • Well, it's possible that you're getting in touch with something that's been present but that you've not been aware of, but it's good to seek simpler answers first. If I feel depressed I'll check out first of all whether I'm tired or hungry (or possibly in your case getting sick). All of those things can leave us feeling bad.

        You haven't said whether you've entered what seems like a prolonged period of depression or whether you just had a brief experience that has now passed. It's not uncommon for people to come face to face with self-doubt in meditation, and to feel down for a while until they figure out how to stand back from those thoughts. It's much rarer for meditation to trigger a full-fledged attack of depression.

        • I am still dealing with the infection/inflammation i mentioned. And with this type of illness you barely sleep, cause there is constant urge to urinate, even if you just emptied your bladder. So it`s probably normal that i feel depressed. What makes it worse is that i don`t know how long could that last. What i wanted to say is, that i started to feel down, even before first symptoms occured. Now i don`t know if i should continue to meditate, should i wait for improvement... Maybe better so, cause i have problem concentrating, because of lack of sleep.

        • It would be normal to feel tired and run down before you even noticed the symptoms of your infection, so I think that's the most likely explanation for how you're feeling. It's probably safe to keep on meditating, unless you find it becomes an opportunity for you to ruminate and spin stories, in which case wait until you're feeling better. In other words, play it by ear.

• Appreciate this effort. I'm a Buddhist and I'm interested in learning new methods to cope with depression. I'm sure if mind is the reason for our problems, only mind can provide the solutions. Meditation is just a part of Buddhism(dhana, seela, bhawana) and I'm sure that there are proven and tested methods to end suffering.